Originally published in the April 2003 Issue of Link & Learn.

The following interview was originally published in Linkage's The Daily Leader (distributed to participants at Linkage's Global Institute for Leadership Development)

Roger Nierneberg is well known as an orchestra builder and also the inventor of the highly successful educational program involving conducting, called "The Music Paradigm." In this interview, he uses the role of the conductor as a metaphor for leadership and shares the history and vision behind The Music Paradigm.

The Daily Leader: Tell us how your work as a conductor evolved into The Music Paradigm. Describe its impact and what led to the impact.

Nierenberg: In 1995, I was the music director for two orchestras and was searching for ways to get more community leaders involved in supporting and experiencing the orchestra. Thinking about their challenges lead me to invent a new format based on two fundamental characteristics:

- People sit inside the orchestra among the musicians

- The discussion that takes place is not at all about the music

The impact from the first session was significant - more than I ever anticipated. The impact resulted from 5 major contributors:

1. Organizations talk about hot issues that are typically difficult to talk about because the issues are dealt with in an indirect way… through the use of music.

2. The session provides a holistic learning approach versus traditional cognitive learning (e.g. PowerPoint presentations). This type of learning engages your mind, senses, and sensibilities. The learning lasts longer and goes deeper.

3. The learning is not framed - the format is interactive. The teaching is not done by me at all but rather comprised of experiential exercises where musicians are unwillingly the teachers. Everyone draws their own conclusions and make their own discoveries. The discoveries and conclusions are metaphorical. The discoveries start about the orchestra and slowly evolve about themselves, and ultimately their organizations.

4. The medium of music is the ideal way of demonstrating organizational dynamics because it happens in real time, is transparent, and fluid. At any one time, you can see a part of it or the whole of it.

5. The entire system is present in one room and all of the dynamics snap into focus.

The Daily Leader: Describe the process of transformation that occurs through The Music Paradigm.

Nierenberg: There is a great transformation that takes place from experiencing The Music Paradigm.

As the participants begin to interact with the orchestra, the musicians begin role playing and illustrate both dysfunctional and functional behaviors based on the interaction. The dysfunction that is created by the music, subconsciously leads the participants to look within themselves and their organizations. The music starts to sound like what is happening in their office and they begin to question their leadership. At the same time, the function that is created by the music, leaves participants with a picture of what their organization could achieve if properly lead. When you see the music that is created through great leadership and teamwork, organizations start to have more productive meetings, increased creativity, openness, inspiration and energy, and individuals become eager to consider ways that they can make their organizations work better.

The Daily Leader: With more than 25 years of conducting experience, how has The Music Paradigm transformed your leadership approach?

Nierenberg: The Music Paradigm has transformed my leadership in so many ways. There is one story in particular that was a turning point for me as a conductor and leader. The larger instruments (i.e. double basses) take a longer time to produce a sound. These instruments tend to be slower and later than other instruments. As an inexperienced conductor, my immediate reaction was to tell them they were late - this seemed like the fastest way to solve the problem. I did not solve the problem, but rather created another. I not only had a timing issue, but now I had an unhappy bass section because they were embarrassed and felt badly about their performance. With experience, I addressed the problem in a different way by asking them to play earlier. I learned a valuable lesson through this request. By asking the bass section to play a leadership role by setting the tempo for the entire orchestra, their role was more active and engaged. I altered my relationship with the basses as well as their relationship with the rest of the orchestra. My bass section was happy and felt successful.

I am also fortunate because music has immediate results and allows me to reflect on my leadership with each second and each performance. If a musician misses a note, I am able to see if it resulted from how I conducted at that moment. I recognize that and will do it differently the next time. I am able to try different behaviors and see immediate results.

The Daily Leader: Understanding that leadership in the business world varies drastically from the leadership in an orchestra, what advice do you have for business leaders in creating their orchestra?

Nierenberg: Behavior changes when you have a paradigm shift and re-map the territory in light of a new reality. The Music Paradigm shows a new reality. The real power, lies within the interaction amongst musicians - how they work together and how they relate to each other. Similar to an orchestra, the power of an organization lies in the people doing the work and how they interact with each other. The role of a leader is to create the best possible space for this to happen including:

- Don't tell your "musicians" what to do.

- Provide your "musicians" with a vision for the whole and guidelines about resources available.

- Give them permission to get the job done.

See the possibilities for yourself and shift the understanding for you and your people. The leader doesn't really have the big power. The leader has the power to create circumstances where others can excel and transcend what is possible. The leader does not do it alone, but rather creates the circumstances where others can do it and together you achieve the goal.

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